Posts by zen nudist

20

Unsolicited Advice

by pettygrudger in

jw
friends

do you feel compelled to give advice to your friends if you think they are making bad choices?

if it's not threatening to your friend in a physical way - do you live & let live - even if their choices have the potential to hurt them emotionally at a future time?

what is the "right thing to do in these situations"?

zen nudist

She always seems appreciate, but also resentful of this situation, which I suppose is understandable.

perfect example of a Transactional Analysis [TA] drama triangle.

A drama triangle is made of two principle players who transform themselves into a third.

there is the victims who is always whining and crying and appears to be seeking help.

there is the rescuer who feels compelled to offer the help.

then there is the transformation which happens to both, they each become persecutors of each other

and the way this happens is that the victims feels inferior and jealous of the rescuers abilities and become resentful

when things do not work out as they fantasize.....as is often the case

and the rescuer becomes resentful as they realize they are not free once their advise has been given, but feel even more obligated as they watch and hope their advise is taken and works...and if it doesn't they feel even more trapped, compelled to try again with new advise....and increasingly more upset that the self advice giving is being treated as an imposition rather than a help as they sense the increasing resentment of the victim.

now there is a way out of this mess....

do not rescue.

do not do for another what they can do for themselves....get them to think up their own solutions, aid them in that, not giving it to them....

yes, you do have a problem, what are YOU going to do about it?

aid them Through their tough times by being a support and a cheerleader for THEIR EFFORTS.

Teach them how THEY can do it, do not do it for them.

The best teachers are those who can show you that you never needed one....not shepherds who are really predators who only teach you to benefit themselves.

32

Evidence that populations descended from the 16 grandsons of Noah

by hooberus in

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secular history gives much evidence to show that the survivors of noah?s flood were real historical figures, whose names were indelibly carved on much of the ancient world ?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4215cen_s1998.asp

zen nudist

genetics tell a very different story... according to the most recent data only ONE major tribe of humans left africa and are at the foundation of all other peoples on earth...the richest genetic diversity of the planet among humans still resides among its most ancient tribes who never left....in africa alone are the greatest genetic differences as one would expect of all other humans come from only one tribe that left....and this would not be the case had any global flood wiped out all humans but one family...the tribes in africa would likewise show the same genetic closeness that all other humans currently share, which is not the case.

30

astrology and the bible

by zen nudist in

in the book of revelations we find an interesting thing... god seated upon his throne enshrouded by the rainbow surrounded by the four living creatures... a lion, the bull, the man and the eagle... .

one need not look far to find an striking parallel... coincidence?

you judge.. the sun is surrounded by the rainbow and the four corners of the ancient sky in astrology, the constellations of leo [the lion] taurus [the bull], aquarius [the man carrying water] and scorpio which in ancient times was also symbolized by an eagle.. that these four are only the corners every 4104 years may be important to understanding when the bible was first written... .

zen nudist

IF your actions have causes how are they free?

if uncaused, how willed?

Freewill seems an invention of those who require a reason some can be held accountable for their actions by a court of justice, after all if everyone is always doing exactly as the true nature of reality dictates for them, there is no choice and no reason to hold anyone accountable....but which is it?

it has come crystal clear to me that we are not different from any other force of nature...these forces are moving at speeds that are incomprehensible to us. for example a movie film is 24 frames per second which is fast enough to cause us to see continuous motion where none actually exists...only still images are there.... but the movement of atoms and electrons is more like a billion billion frames per second and it takes us about 1/3 of a second to catch up to what is going on...a very long lag time... we cannot change anything in motion, because we never can react fast enough...and our reactions are all based in natural forces in motion as well....

since no one can alter a single instance of what lead everyone to the very present moment, no one can ever be anywhere but where they find us all....now.... and every now is the same...we are always at the end of a long series of steps which no one can undo or redo.... this present moment, this now is the end of the chain and we are always finding ourselves there...and no other place.... so I must conclude that we are always exactly where we find ourself...always...no freewill. no free choice... only the mix of forces which brings all things to where they must be...even if some are random.-- I had to write this

6

Franz and Penton

by dothemath in

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would some of you still be in the organization if these two individual's reforms had been adopted?.

ironically..........i think the society is gradually moving in the direction of some of their ideas......... 0ne example..........i recall a tv interview in which james penton (whom i met when he was still a witness) made the argument that blood transfusions should be allowed in an emergency ........and used the example of david and his men eating the "show bread" while on the run from saul........normally totally off-limits but okay in this case.. this thinking was of course condemned by the society........but i wouldn't be surprised if that idea resurfaces some day because of all the back-tracking on this stand, as well as many blood components now being allowed.

zen nudist

Acts 15 puts abstaining from blood on par with fornication, and if the WTS did the same they would have a lot less problems with it...but they make it seem like fornication while wrong is forgivable as a weakness but taking blood is a capitol offense and blaspheme of the spirit [though they never outright say so]

17

What are some Bible verses that contradict (or weaken) the DF policy?

by somebodylovesme in

.. let me say straight off that i am not that familiar with the bible (my husband is an inactive jw.. i never was in the religion).

but i thought i read once a bible story in which jesus went to visit someone who was seen as an immoral person, and said that they needed him the most?

are there any other verses/stories that carry this theme and would weaken the jw's policy of disfellowshipping?.

zen nudist

in a book study meeting it occurred to me that the policy about not speaking to apostates and the DF'd had to be wrong

after all, who was THE most apostate being in the universe? no not my ex wife...but close, yes SATAN....

and when he tried to seduce Jesus by a bible debate, did Jesus run and hide and say I cannot speak to you, you are an apostate and DF'd from heaven? hell no.... he confronted him directly and supposedly set the example for us...

when I asked this of an elder...he scowled, pointed an angry finger and said in a harsh voice, you are standing on THIN ICE

reminds me of how they made fun of catholic clergy who could not answer difficult questions.

17

Santa Clause and lying....

by Oxnard Hamster in

one reason the jws don't celebrate christmas, besides the fact it's supposedly an insult to god, is that they purport that it's wrong to "lie" to children by telling them santa claus exists.

i really didn't give the issue much thought until recently.

the jw i used to study with called me and asked how i was doing, and we eventually got on the subject of christmas, and he brought up that it's wrong because parents lie to children by saying santa claus is real.

zen nudist

The commandment was you shall not bear false testimony [in court] has little to do with general lying.

and Jehovah approves of an angel's plan to become a deceptive spirit in the mouth of false prophets...

as to reality

humans seem to be liars by nature or by experienced exposure...they start sponteniously lying at around age four

and we hold up very good liars [actors, politicians, clergy and other leaders] as examples to follow.

Everyone tells you that honesty is the best policy and then lie their @$$ off to your face... I believe their real goal is to find out who is stupid enough to believe them and be honest....after all its easier for a con artist/liar to know how to screw over those who have a solid dependable standing... you can count on them to be less of a variable in your schemes.

as one who has suffered from a deformed dishonesty mechanism, I can tell you first hand that honesty is not the best policy in day to day interactions as most people do not want their fantasy ideals disturbed by facts... nor their religious convictions ridiculed by apparent reality and a lack of evidence on their part... to be too honest means to be lonely and shunned as a trouble maker.

49

did Jesus exist and does it matter?

by zen nudist in

http://www.impactpress.com/articles/decjan01/jesus120101.html

check this out and let me know what you think..... my personal opinion so far, with all that i have learned to date and being out of jw'dom for 13+ years.

is that jesus likely never existed.

zen nudist

Quite simply, one must ignore a great deal of evidence, and treat what evidence is left most unfairly, in order to deny that Jesus existed

you know I have heard this BULL$#!+ parrotted over and over again, but not ONCE does anyone ever include what that evidence actually is and if they did you would see that it amounts to nothing more than hearsay, rumor and myth. And just because many are satisfied with that does not mean it proves Jesus was more than a popular story... a million opinions does not make a single fact.

if you carefully read the article I pointed out, it meantions that most scholars accept that Jesus was a real person, however they also accept that what is known about him is next to nothing and the line between him existing and not is thin for them as well...and there are many listed who did cross that line.

A final consideration is that we have very little information from first-century sources to begin with

and finally don't you think that if Jesus were the pivitol figure the bible pretends, that his dad would have been able to make his existance a rock solid fact without so many controversies?

If I am not mistaken didn't almost all of the original 12 apostles suffer violent deaths due to their belief in and preaching about Jesus? Didn't Paul? I don't know about you, but I can't imagine anyone WILLINGLY dying for something they KNEW to be a hoax or fable. Would you be willing to die for a fable or a hoax? I don't think I'd have the courage to die for something that I KNEW to be true since I'm pretty much a gutless person who would do just about anything to avoid being tortured or killed. I REALLY don't like pain.

did ANY of them actually exist beyond the stories? were they 12 zodiac signs brought to life...the gospels do not even agree on the names of the 12 if you compare them.

and as to people dying, how many mormons died for a golden magic tablet they never saw?

how many JWs died without blood transfusions for a faith in an organization which is not held by any other?

Josephus

lets assume Josephus is not a 4th cent christian forgery....what does it actually show?

that the story about Jesus was already circulating in 57CE... so what? it does not mean Jesus was a real person. Would historians in NY mention mormon's have a book from golden plates make these magical plates real?

and which Jesus? the name Jesus was 3rd most popular and its also interesting to note how dishonest translators are for translating one Jesus and the other 3 as Joshua when they all have the same name...making it seem like Jesus was a unique name.

49

did Jesus exist and does it matter?

by zen nudist in

http://www.impactpress.com/articles/decjan01/jesus120101.html

check this out and let me know what you think..... my personal opinion so far, with all that i have learned to date and being out of jw'dom for 13+ years.

is that jesus likely never existed.

zen nudist

http://www.impactpress.com/articles/decjan01/jesus120101.html

check this out and let me know what you think....

my personal opinion so far, with all that I have learned to date and being out of JW'dom for 13+ years

is that Jesus likely never existed.

16

To my Italian-American Friends.

by El Kabong in

got this from a relative and just wanted to share with everyone.

all italians have a $40,000 kitchen, but use the $179 stove from american appliance in the basement to cook.the living room couch was covered with plastic.strohmeman and wonder bread was for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches only.there is some sort of religious statue in the hallway, living room,front,porch and backyard.a portrait of the pope and frank sinatra in the dining room.god forbid if anyone ever attempted to eat chef boy-ar-dee, franco-american, ragu, prego or anything else in a jar or can (tomato paste is the exception).the following are italian holidays- first weekend in october- grapes for the wine, 3rd weekend in august- tomatoes for the gravy.

speaking of which, it's gravy and not sauce.meatballs are made with pork, veal and beef.

zen nudist

and btw, we sicilians are not being rude when we cut you off in the middle of a sentance... that is the only way

we knew how to stop the other person and get our say in....otherwise he would ramble on forever.

we don't believe in conversational edicate[?]....

many a meal came off like a shouting match which my german mother never could fathom...but I suspect its because we need the anger to generate enough stomach acids to digest the 5 course meals we were forced to eat under threat of our food going to starving chinese....

you're too fat.... eat! eat! [Mongia mongia!]

24

no sweaty blood

by peacefulpete in

we all remember the story in luke 22:44 where in jesus in agonizing prayer begins to sweat blood.

remember the extremely rare medical condition where a person being tortured can sweat blood that was cited as proof that the bible was true and how this should deepen our appreciation for the sacrifice of jesus?

well the footnote in the reference bible reveals that the earliest and best manuscripts of the nt do not have verses 43&44.

zen nudist

And that's a twist for two reasons: 1) Because the NT gospels says that Jesus was unmarried, and 2) Because Jesus was a EUNUCH and in love with his cousin John.

Actually the gospels NEVER mentioned Jesus marital status... nor that of the apostles but Paul stated that in his day, all the apostles were still married...but him.

oddly paul makes no statement of jesus either way...which would have certainly bolstered his case that others imitate HIM.

as to being a Eunich, Jesus never said he was one of those either.